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From owner-pubyac@nysernet.org Tue Nov 25 10:58:33 1997
From: Angela Christianson <achristi@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Re: Patron-friendly signage
Why not try "Information Desk" or "Help Desk". These two
might be
understood better.
On Fri, 21 Nov 1997, Christel J. Olson wrote:
> We are seeking alternatives to the phrase "Reference Desk."
>
> The majority of our library users are children and non-native English
> speakers, so we're interested in straightforward, easy to understand and
> (preferably) short phrases or words.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Christel@lib.state.hi.us
>
> Christel Olson
> Children's Librarian
> McCully-Moiliili Public Library
> Honolulu, HI
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From owner-pubyac@nysernet.org Tue Nov 25 10:58:33 1997
From: "Janet Eckert" <wmrls2@crocker.com>
Subject: die cutting machines
In western Massachusetts, we have two public libraries that make their die
cutting machines available to librarian colleagues, teachers, and childcare
providers. It is a wonderful community service and great public relations
for the library. The Massachusetts Regional Library Systems promoted the
use of these machines within our Summer '97 Photo Showcase Web Site
(examples: http://www.wmrls.org/forbes.html &
http://www.wmrls.org/palmer.html).
Sincerely,
janet eckert
Western Massachusetts Regional Library System
---------------------
From owner-pubyac@nysernet.org Tue Nov 25 10:58:35 1997
From: Elizabeth Thomsen <et@noblenet.org>
Subject: Re: Treatment of Children's Librarians
I've thought a lot about this question over the years. I've worked in a
few different public libraries, sometimes as a Children's Librarian and
sometimes not, and now I work for a library consortium and work with many
different staff members of our libraries, including Children's Librarians.
There are many people who lack respect for people who work with children,
simply because they lack respect for children themselves. There is not
much that you can do about those people. However, there are also
well-meaning administrators and adult services staff who view the
Children's Room as important in a general sense (because it's popular with
the voters and because it provides some nice PR photo opportunities) but
who do not really understand or respect what happens there, or give the
Children's Department an adequate share or resources-- money, staffing or
equipment.
I do have some suggestions for ways that Children's Librarians can work to
get more respect within their libraries. I think the most important way
is through education and involvement. Do whatever you can to encourage
other librarians to work in the Children's Room on a regular or occasional
basis, providing training and encouragement for those who do. Participate
in staff meetings and even at coffee breaks, using every opportunity to
talk about programs, new services, problems, etc. If you are having an
author come to visit, for example, talk about that at a staff meeting,
booktalk the author's works for the rest of the staff and encourage them
to read one and attend if possible. Sometimes the Children's Room staff
plays the role of comic relief at breaks and even staff meetings, relating
amusing kid-stories. No harm in doing that occasionally, but you have to
be careful that you are not unconsciously reinforcing the concept of your
department as a silly, happy place of no serious importance.
When you are interacting with the Library Director and other staff
members, try to use generic language and especially avoid anything
"cute."
For example, if you are discussing delays in getting your material through
Technical Services, talk about "high-demand new titles" rather than
"the
new Arthur book." If you are looking for an increase in your program
budget, refer to refreshments rather than lollipops or animal crackers.
This makes it easier to achieve equity with other departments without
distracting people with "cuteness."
Learn how to think about budget and statistics. It's part of your job to
advocate for your department, and to make sure that you are getting an
appropriate share of resources. What percentage of the materials budget
are you getting? What percentage of the staffing? What percentage of the
library's circulation is your department generating? If you want to get
respect (and other things!) from administrators, you need to talk to them
in their own language, and that's usually quantitative.
Children's Librarians should also try to be active in general library
affairs, within their own libraries and beyond, and should not always
confine their involvement to children's services activities. Make sure
that you are seen as an active, involved professional, whose proud
specialty is Children's Services, and not a glorified babysitter who
happens to work in a library.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Elizabeth B. Thomsen | NOBLE : North of Boston Library Exchange
Member Services Manager | 26 Cherry Hill Drive
et@noblenet.org | Danvers, Mass. 01923
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------
From owner-pubyac@nysernet.org Tue Nov 25 10:58:35 1997
From: "Kate McCaffrey, Dan Carno" <598161@ican.net>
ubject: Re: Treatment of children's librarians
>From my experience, I would suggest some possible reasons that Children's
Librarians do
not always receive the same respect as adult librarians. One is that they
may not get
involved in library issues outside of their own department. Are they less
likely to serve on
committees? To be involved in determining policies and procedures? I think
it is very important that we insist on a position of equality, and in order
to do that, we need to be as VISIBLE as possible
outside of our own departments. We also should be confident enough to cover
for adult reference
librarians when there is a shortage of staff. And of course, we need to be
more aggressive in keeping
up with technology. I often feel as if my fingertips tingle when I open a
wonderful book - whether it's new or an old friend. I'll never get that
from a computer - no matter how many bells and whistles it has,
but they're here to stay, and it's in our own best interest to become
confident and proficient.
There is also the paradox of promotion - in most cases, if we want to be
promoted, and earn more money, we have to stop doing what we love and are
trained to do. Many of the best children's librarians choose not do that.
As a result, they may be less likely to aggressively pursue opportunities
for professional growth than their colleagues in the adult departments.
I expect that many children's librarians will protest that they don't have
time - they're understaffed, have
to prepare programs, do class visits, etc. I know too, that many terrific
children's librarians find a
great deal of satisfaction in what they do; they are truly dedicated, and
believe [as I do] that our work is important. WE know that the children are
the future - that they have important information needs, and that they are
starved for rich language and wonderful stories. But I think that they do
themselves and their patrons a disservice if they assume that the library's
administration and staff are going to recognize their value without some
aggressive promotion on their parts.
Kate McCaffrey
Children's World
Central Library
Syracuse NY
4514 Makyes Road
Syracuse, NY 13215
(315) 492-2987
598161@ican.net
---------------------
From owner-pubyac@nysernet.org Tue Nov 25 10:59:17 1997
From: Cindy Riggs <Cynth@postoffice.worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Young Adult Program Successes
I am a student at Emporia State University obtaining my MLS. I am
currently in a YA class in which my final project involves putting
together a young adult program. What young adult programs have you
implemented that would be a sure success? I am also interested because
our small public library has no young adult programs whatsoever, and I
would like to try to get something started there.
Thanks for your responses. Please respond to me personally and I'll
compile a list if there's an interest.
Cindy Riggs
Emporia State University MLS student
Sterling Public Library Board member
cynth@worldnet.att.net
---------------------
From owner-pubyac@nysernet.org Tue Nov 25 10:59:22 1997
From: Willa Jean <harnerwi@epicurus.oplin.lib.oh.us>
Subject: Re: Patron-friendly signage
Christel J. Olson wrote:
>
> We are seeking alternatives to the phrase "Reference Desk."
I like Denver Public Library's "ASK HERE" -- it seems to be as
succinct
and comprehensive as possible.
--
Willa Jean Harner 419-447-3751
Head, Junior Department, Tiffin-Seneca Public Library
77 Jefferson Street, Tiffin, OH 44883-2399
---------------------
From owner-pubyac@nysernet.org Tue Nov 25 10:59:45 1997
From: Karen James <KAREN@louisville.lib.ky.us>
Subject: Electronic information resources for children
We are upgrading our computer system and will have networked PC's in the
children's areas. I am looking for electronic information resources for
children ages 6-10. These can be either on line or cd rom that we can
network for the system. I am looking for resources that the children can
use or that we can use with them to answer reference/homework type
questions. We have other computers which have the educational games. Most
of the computer material I have seen mentioned on this list serve and in
other sources falls more into the educational game category. I am familiar
with the DK products and of course various encyclopedials but if someone
has one that is sespecially good for this primary /intermediate age, I
would like your recomendation.
Internet links are also of interest. I do have some standard lists but the
Internet is so vast that if you have used any site you feel is particularly
good, I am interested in know it.
Does anyone have suggestions for material or sources to check?
I will compile and send back to the list any suggestions I get.
Thanks in advance.
Karen@louisville.lib.ky.us
Karen James
Manager, Children's Services
Louisville Free Public Library
301 York Street
Louisville, Ky 40203
---------------------
From owner-pubyac@nysernet.org Tue Nov 25 11:00:30 1997
From: mchelton@cadvantage.com (marykchelton)
ubject: Status of Children's Librarians
Maggie Kimmel at the University of Pittsburgh did her dissertation on the
status of librarians and how it relates to the status given their clients.
As one fine youth services librarian said to me, she tries to emphasize the
children's librarians are "librarians plus" not the "librarians
minus" so
many colleagues seem to assume. When I worked in Maryland last, I noticed
that the manager of a large regional branch never left the head of the
children's dept. in charge at night, even though she was a Librarian III
exactly like her counterparts in Adult Services and Reference. To his
credit, when I called him on it, he changed his behavior.
This constant feeling of being undervalued leads to other problems, namely
a victim and persecution complex which can make it very hard to have a
legitimate disagreement over methods of serving children. The attitude is
that "we know best" (implication being since that's all you think we
know)
and that "if you really liked children, you would agree with me"
instead of
any kind of intellectual engagement.
I've often wanted to do research into the behavior of oppressed groups and
compare it to the behavior I have observed among children's AND young adult
librarians (although the YA component can present itself differently.)
Been there...
Mary K.
******************************************************************************
Mary K. Chelton, MLS, PhD
Assistant Professor
School of Library and Information Management
Emporia State University
1200 Commercial
Emporia, KS 66801
phone: (316) 341-5071 work
(316)342-9277 home
fax: (316) 342-6391 home
e-mail: mchelton@cadvantage.com
---------------------
From owner-pubyac@nysernet.org Tue Nov 25 11:01:30 1997
From: JOAN S DILLON <dillon@nevada.edu>
Subject: Re: die cutting machine: use policies (fwd)
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Hi,
Earlier, I sent this message to the individual who originated the inquiry.
Now I notice several people are responding to the list, and since it seems
to be of interest to others, I will post this to the list as well.
I am with the Curriculum Materials Library, UNLV. Our patrons are
primarily education students preparing for a career in the teaching field
and Clark County school teachers already in the classroom. We also serve
private schools of the area, but they come to us less frequently. Also we
serve the entire campus community if they choose to utilize our services.
Our Skills lab houses 3 medium size letterpress machines and I XLarge. We
offer our patrons approximately 300 dies to choose from.
Our policy is as follows:
They bring their own paper. We do not have the budget to buy or the space
to stock those type supplies for sale. However, if they should bring 12
sheets of black paper and find they need a couple more, we do keep enough
on hand to sell them a few sheets in a pinch.
We have scissors, tape, rulers, etc. available for sign-out at the desk.
They use them only in house. They are not to leave this library.
There is no charge for using the letterpress machines.
If they laminate (we have a large and medium laminator) we charge $.20 per
foot for the medium laminator and $.35 for the large. The large is poster
board size. These prices may go up a nickle or dime each next semester. We
only charge enough to cover the cost of our laminating film. We cannot
make any profit on our services.
These prices are all for classroom related activities. Should someone want
to laminate their family postcards or photographs, or should a church
group want to do decorations for an event, they are welcome to use the
machines but we do charge them $1.00 a foot for lamination. If they want
to use the letterpress for private use we charge $5.00 for 4 hours. We
had to do this to because non- educational use was seriously beginning
to dominate the skills lab space and the teachers and education students
were not able to use it for their class related purposes. They are, after
all, why we exist, so we had to alleviate this problem in some manner. The
charge seems to have worked.
We also house a transparency maker, corner rounder, paper cutters, hole
punches, dry mount press, overhead projector, opaque projector, slide
projectors, and vhs viewers for patron use.
Our skills lab is very popular and very busy. Like a zoo at times. What we
need is a room-stretcher so more can squeeze in. We have tenative plans to
move it to another section of our library which will give more space for
the work area.
Hope this is of some assistance to you. If you have questions that I could
possibly address, drop and note and I will give it a shot.
Joan Dillon
LIBASST IV
Curriculum Materials Library
UNLV
---------------------
From owner-pubyac@nysernet.org Tue Nov 25 11:01:46 1997
From: Susanna Holstein <pkb00700@alpha.wvup.wvnet.edu>
Subject: Christmas craft
Several ideas come to mind for edible holiday crafts:
1)frost and decorate Christmas cookies. you can make or buy plain sugar
cookies, provide icing and decorations, and let 'em go to work.
2)last year at my granddaughter's church, they used sugar cones upside
down to make christmas trees. The kids covered them with green or white
icing, then decorated with various candies and cake decorations. they
were really cute, and edible.
3)make a 10" square cake. cut so that you have two triangles, one bigger
than the other, and a few other triangles to put together into a square
to make a base. You can make a template by trying out a pattern on a 10"
sq pices of paper first. Then have your group assemble and decorate the
cake.
4)use chenille sticks as the base for a wreath of Fruit loops. Bend one
end of the chenille stick into a hook, then thread the loops on until
you have only a 1/2" or so lft of the stick. Then bend the ends together
to make a loop, add a ribbon, and you have a cute wreath. And the kids
will eat the loops as they work.
There are lots of other ideas in Christmas craft books.
Susanna
---------------------
From owner-pubyac@nysernet.org Tue Nov 25 11:02:12 1997
From: "Lisa Prolman" <lprolman@hotmail.com>
Subject: outcome of food for fines
To all who sent information about your food for fines programs (and
those who are just interested):
Instituting a food for fines program was voted down at the staff meeting
held at our library last Friday (interestingly enough, while my
supervisor and I -- the main proponents of the idea -- were at a region
meeting for next summer's reading program). I want to thank everyone
who responded to me regarding this issue. I plan on keeping all of your
responses and trying again next year. If I'm really lucky, I'll be able
to convince others on staff that getting long overdue materials back and
helping the community means more than two or three weeks worth of fine
monies.
Lisa Prolman
Assistant Children's Librarian
Greenfield Public Library
Greenfield, MA
(413)772-1590
lprolman@hotmail.com
"Nothing is impossible to anyone impervious to reason."
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
---------------------
From owner-pubyac@nysernet.org Tue Nov 25 11:02:26 1997
From: Sharon Lamberson <mdu004@mail.connect.more.net>
ubject: Re: die cutting machine
The company address is:
Ellison Educational Equipment, Inc.
PO Box 8209 Newport Beach, CA 92658-8209
Phone #:(800)253-2238
email: info@ellison-inc.com
Web Site: http://www.ellison-inc.com
At 08:21 PM 11/20/97 -0800, you wrote:
>I've heard of these before but never seen one. What sort of
>vendor sells them, what kinds of things do you produce with the
>machine and how do you use the products????
>
>Marge
>~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
>Life is just a bowl of queries!
>~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
>Marge Fauver Eastside Branch Library
>805.963.3727 Santa Barbara Public Library System
>
><sbeast@rain.org> 1102 East Montecito St., Santa Barbara CA
>93103
>Personal email: mfauver@hotmail.com
>~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^
>
>
>
>
>
>
Sharon Lamberson
Hannibal Free Public Library
200 South Fifth
Hannibal, MO 63401
573-221-0222
"Missouri's oldest tax-supported library"
---------------------
From owner-pubyac@nysernet.org Tue Nov 25 11:03:01 1997
From: Maureen Kilmurray <mo@flvax.ferg.lib.ct.us>
ubject: The meaning of "professional" in services to children and
I would like to hear from other libraries on the issues Allison Ho recently
brought up ----
From: "Allison Ho" <HO@slais.ubc.ca>
Subject: The meaning of "professional" in services to children and
young
What does it mean to be a "professional" in providing children's and
youth services? Why do you feel it is important that the providers
of programming, collection development etcetera be library
professionals?
As a manager of a large Youth department, I find myself having to defend
why our service area needs professional librarians as opposed to Library
Assistants. There is an administrative prospective that LA's can do the
job just as well. Have other libraries experienced a similiar
prospecitve??? How do you address the issue?? How do you divide off (and
on) desk responsibilities between professional and para-professional staff???
***********************************************
MAUREEN KILMURRAY
Supervisor of Children's Services
Ferguson Library
One Public Library Plaza, Stamford CT o6904
(203) 964-1000 Ext. 240
mo@ferg.lib.ct.us
---------------------
From owner-pubyac@nysernet.org Tue Nov 25 11:03:14 1997
From: "MAUREEN MOORE CZERWINSKI" <czermaur@email.dom.edu>
Subject: Library services to homeless families
Hi,
I am a library student at Dominican University in River Forest, IL.
I am doing a class project on library services to the homeless.
Please let me know of the programs and services that are utilized at
your library by homeless families. I would also like to hear of any
libraries that are working with other agencies to provide services
to the homeless. Your responses are very appreciated.
Maureen Czerwinski
czermaur@email.dom.edu
---------------------
From owner-pubyac@nysernet.org Tue Nov 25 11:04:08 1997
From: jd663@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Victoria Vannucci)
Subject: fake tattoos
I's like to give out fake tattoos to the YA's at our new library's
grnad opening. Does anyone know a supplier?
The grand opening is in January, so if you do let me know soon!
You can email me directly at jd663@cleveland.freenet.edu
Thanks!
---------------------
From owner-pubyac@nysernet.org Tue Nov 25 11:04:28 1997
From: Mel Burton <mburton@plcmc.lib.nc.us>
Subject: Treatment of Children's Librarians-response
Regarding the question posted about treatment of children's librarians, this
area of librarianship has a double whammy against it in the eyes of some since
it is primarily composed of females and serves children as one of the main
clienteles. I explored gender roles in an article I wrote for the summer 1993
issue of North Carolina Libraries. The article is entitled "Whose Mom Is a
Librarian or Does Gender Make a Difference in Children's Librarianship?"
Communication and cross-training are two methods which help in promoting the
status of children's librarians. Communicate what you do by statistics
compilation and individual success stories. Recruit library staff outside of
your section to help at your events and be prepared to reciprocate. Still be
prepared to accept some differences in attitudes. You cannot afford to let that
affect the job of leading children to a love of reading. Hope this helps. Mel
Burton <mburton@plcmc.lib.nc.us>
---------------------
From owner-pubyac@nysernet.org Tue Nov 25 11:04:32 1997
From: Adelaide Rowe <arowe@egvpl.org>
Subject: COLOR CODING OF FAIRY TALES
Ok, here goes! I last asked if any of you had used colored labels to
denote regions or countries for fairy tales. Most of the responders (and
there weren't all that many) said that they had recataloged them by
country, or were in the process, or at least thinking about it. Two
people did say they were curious as to how I would do it , and seemed in
favor of a simpler method. Now before you get all upset at my procedure,
imagine this - our technical services is so swamped that we are six
months behind, and they have higher priorities than my 24 shelves of
fairy tales. SO IT WOULD NEVER, EVER GET DONE. Bearing that in mind, and
the fact that I can be impulsive when I want to, here is what I did.
First of all, before you desert me and call me a heretic and a
charlatan, I want to tell you that each shelf took about 25-30 minutes.
That's it! And, it was great fun doing it. So, here are the stickers I
used.
1. Foreign Language Stickers -German, Spanish (for Spain only) and
French (we had purchased these from Demco and only the Spanish is still
available - however they could be printed up and used on other parts of
the collection as well)
2. Canadian Maple Leaf for Canada (Brodart)
3. African American (Brodart)
4. Multi-Cultural (Brodart)
5. Jewish (for Israel, and Jewish and Yiddish stories) (Gaylord)
6. Native American (Demco)
7. Colored Stickers (Highsmith available in 17 colors) - I made the
following arbitrary divisions:
Africa, Australia and Pacific Islands, Asia (miscellaneous), British
Isles (includes Ireland), Caribbean Islands, China, Europe
(miscellaneous), India and Pakistan and Bangladesh, Italy, Greece,
Japan, Korea, Middle East including Egypt and Turkey, Mexico, Russia,
Scandinavia (includes Greenland), South and Central America, and the
United States.
P.S. The reason why I used so many different types of stickers was
so that I could have as many divisions as possible. Actually, I thought
long and hard on the divisions, and I am sure that others would disagree
with my determinations. But, they did work pretty well. There were some
unusual books however. One book, How Many Spots Does a Leopard Have?, by
Julius Lester contained two very different types of stories - Jewish and
African, so it got both stickers. Another problem that I had was the
modern retelling of an older story, but I got over it, by just applying
both stickers. One such example is Barry Moser's Tucker Pfeffercorn. CIP
lists it in its summary as a retelling of the classic Rumpelstiltskin
with a Southern setting, yet gives the subject headings as fairy tales
and folklore-Germany.I feel that my German and American stickers were
actually more accurate than the CIP. Anyhow, I have to admit that I have
a handful of books that I have yet to identify, and I feel very
uncomfortable putting an American sticker on a fairy tale that was
written about a king and his kingdom, just because it was written by an
American. They just might get nothing at all. Anyhow, to recap, I am
really glad I did this - staff and patrons have been delighted, and when
we put together book bags for teachers, and want to include some fairy
or folk tales from another country, it is so much easier. I know it
isn't as PC as recataloging, but it was soooo easy and efficient. Thank
you to anyone reading all this!
--
Adelaide Rowe
arowe@egvpl.org
Head of Youth Services
Elk Grove Village Public Library
Elk Grove Village, Il 60007
---------------------
From owner-pubyac@nysernet.org Tue Nov 25 11:04:56 1997
From: norstrom@lexecon.com
Subject: Articles on Toddler Programs
There is a good article in Illinois Libraries and a bibliography at the
end.
Kathleen M. Flatow, "Programs for Babies in Public Libraries."
Illinois
Libraries, 70, n. 3 (Summer 1997) 107-109.
Good Luck,
Terri Norstrom
norstrom@lexecon.com
---------------------
From owner-pubyac@nysernet.org Tue Nov 25 11:04:58 1997
From: Bruce Greeley <brgreele@kcls.org>
Subject: updated website
"TeenZone", that marvelous site on the internet for all things teen
and
fun, coming out of the King County Library System's homepage in Washington
state, has been updated.
Check out:
http://www.kcls.org/newya/ya.html
We now include even other hip library sites as links -- this is, indeed,
one trial solution to what to do when the kids seem to be stuck looking at
tawdry porn sites!: send 'em to TeenZone where they can make anagrams of
their names, or phone numbers, play pictionary, get scholarship info.,
study for their SAT's, get lists of all the best books, find out about the
latest fashion tips, read how different languages spell the noises animals
make(?), get new suggestions for bands they may like, and lots more!
(feel free to link from your own websites: let me know if you do!)
ENJOY!,
Bruce "hype it up" Greeley
[who has his own program linked here, too, note:
http://www.kcls.org/kcls/escape.html
Cheers,
<brgreele@kcls.org>
---------------------
From owner-pubyac@nysernet.org Tue Nov 25 11:05:34 1997
From: Tiffany Schwartz <schwartz@noblenet.org>
Subject: Re: Patron-friendly signage
INFORMATION
INFORMATION SERVICES
YOUTH SERVICES
JUST A FEW THAT COME TO MIND...GOOD LUCK.
On Fri, 21 Nov 1997, Christel J. Olson wrote:
>
> We are seeking alternatives to the phrase "Reference Desk."
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Tiffany Schwartz | Lucius Beebe Memorial Library
Young Adults' Librarian | Wakefield, Massachusetts
schwartz@noblenet.org | *North of Boston Library Exchange*
---------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------
From owner-pubyac@nysernet.org Tue Nov 25 11:06:12 1997
From: norstrom@lexecon.com
Subject: Re: Christmas craft
You may have heard of "Story Stretchers" by Shirley C. Raines. She
stretches each stories in her book five ways. In her book for preschool
aged children almost every title a cooking activity. Selected ideas are
available on the Internet at http://www.ghbooks.com/activity/freeact.htm.
Thanks,
Terri Norstrom
norstrom@lexecon.com
---------------------
From owner-pubyac@nysernet.org Tue Nov 25 11:06:16 1997
From: "Mary Moody" <mmoody@vigo.lib.in.us>
Subject: Re: Die Cutting Machine
> Edison die cutting machine
Greetings,
This is probably "really picky" but I have read this name several
times. Our library also has a die-cutting machine for staff use
only and it is called an Ellison Die-Cutting Machine.
There may be an Edison company that makes these machines, but I have
not heard of it, as of yet.
Mary Moody
VCPL Terre Haute, IN
\o/ \o/ \o/ "Let everything that hath breath Praise the Lord!"
---------------------
From owner-pubyac@nysernet.org Tue Nov 25 11:06:45 1997
From: Elena Rosenfeld <elenar@jefferson.lib.co.us>
Subject: ALAWON v6, n102 - CDA SUCCESSOR INTRODUCED (fwd)
I apologize for any cross posting; but, here's the latest about CDA's
successor.
Elena Rosenfeld elenar@jefferson.lib.co.us
Head, Children's Services (303)936-7407 (voice)
Jefferson County Public Library (303)937-1980 (fax)
Villa Branch
455 S. Pierce St
Lakewood, CO 80226
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 17:40:34 -0500
From: ALAWASH E-MAIL <ALAWASH@ALAWASH.ORG>
To: ALA Washington Office Newsline <ala-wo@ala1.ala.org>
Subject: ALAWON v6, n102 - CDA SUCCESSOR INTRODUCED
=================================================================
ALAWON Volume 6, Number 102
ISSN 1069-7799 November 20, 1997
American Library Association Washington Office Newsline
In this issue: (101 lines)
COMMUNICATIONS DECENCY ACT SUCCESSOR INTRODUCED
_________________________________________________________________
COMMUNICATIONS DECENCY ACT SUCCESSOR INTRODUCED
At the end of the first session of the 105th Congress, Sen. Dan
Coats (R-IN) introduced legislation to prohibit commercial
distribution on the World Wide Web of material that is "harmful
to minors" under the age of 17. S. 1482, introduced on November
8, is intended, according to its sponsor, to reflect the
parameters laid out by the Supreme Court in its decision on the
Communications Decency Act.
The "harmful to minors" definition in the bill includes material
that "taken as a whole and with respect to minors, appeals to a
prurient interest in nudity, sex or excretion; depicts,
describes, or represents, in a patently offensive way with
respect to what is suitable for minors, an actual or simulated
sexual act or sexual contact, actual or simulated normal or
perverted sex acts, or a lewd exhibition of the genitals; and
lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific
value." The bill would provide a defense to any prosecution that
the defendant restricted access by requiring a credit card, adult
access code or ID number.
Although the legislation addresses only commercial activity on
the Web, ALA is mentioned several times in Sen. Coats' remarks,
including the following in the Congressional Record (November 8,
p. S12147):
And what about blocking software? Mr. President, let me
begin by pointing out the amazing level of deceit that
proponents of this solution are willing to go to. The
American Library Association, a principal opponent of
the CDA, lined up with plaintiffs in challenging the
Constitutionality of the Act. It was a central argument
of the Library Association and their cohorts, that
blocking software presented a non-governmental solution
to the problem.
However, Mr. President, if one logs onto the American
Library Association Web site one finds quite a
surprise. Contained on the site is a resolution, adopted
by the ALA Council on July 2, 1997, that resolves:
"That the American Library Association affirms that the
use of filtering software by libraries to block access
. . . violates the Library Bill of Rights." Mr.
President, I ask unanimous consent that this Resolution
be inserted into the Record.
So, here we find the true agenda of the American
Library Association. They represent to the Court that
everything is O.K., that all we need is blocking
software. Then, they turn around and implement a policy
that says no-way.
The words Sen. Coats left out (indicated by the . . .) in his
reference to the ALA resolution were: "to constitutionally
protected speech." However, the full text of ALA's July 2
Resolution on the Use of Filtering Software in Libraries
(www.ala.org/alaorg/oif/filt_res.html) was appended to his
remarks.
Although no action was taken on this bill before the first
session adjourned, S. 1482 will carry over to the second session
beginning January 1998. The issue can be expected to generate
considerable attention in an election year.
TO LOCATE SEN. COATS' BILL AND INTRODUCTORY REMARKS:
-Sen. Coats' bill can be found through Thomas at thomas.loc.gov.
One method is to use the QUICK SEARCH TEXT OF BILLS 105th
CONGRESS: Search by Bill Number: S. 1482. A free copy will be
mailed upon request from the Senate Document Room, phone 202/
224-7860, specify bill S. 1482.
-Sen. Coats' introductory remarks are in the Congressional Record
(November 8, pp. S12146-54). The remarks are also available
online through Thomas and GPO Access (one interface is GPO Gate
at the University of California at
www.gpo.ucop.edu/search/crfld.html). However, Coats' remarks are
currently grouped electronically with remarks on "Northern
Ireland/Border Counties Free Trade, Development and Security Act"
and therefore seem mislabeled.
_________________________________________________________________
ALAWON is a free, irregular publication of the American Library
Association Washington Office. To subscribe, send the message:
subscribe ala-wo [your_firstname] [your_lastname] to listproc
@ala.org. To unsubscribe, send the message: unsubscribe ala-wo
to listproc@ala.org. ALAWON archives at http://www.ala.org/
washoff/alawon. Visit our Web site at http://www.alawash.org.
ALA Washington Office 202.628.8410 (V)
1301 Pennsylvania Ave., NW, #403 202.628.8419 (F)
Washington, DC 20004-1701 800.941.8478 (V)
Lynne E. Bradley, Editor <leb@alawash.org>
Deirdre Herman, Managing Editor <alawash@alawash.org>
Contributors: Carol C. Henderson
All materials subject to copyright by the American Library
Association may be reprinted or redistributed for noncommercial
purposes with appropriate credits.
=================================================================
---------------------
From owner-pubyac@nysernet.org Tue Nov 25 11:07:27 1997
From: "Justine Karmozyn" <jkarmozy@cwmarsmail.cwmars.org>
Subject: Re: Patron-friendly signage
A good alternative to "Reference Desk" is "Information."
Young Adult Librarian
Milford Town Library
---------------------
From owner-pubyac@nysernet.org Tue Nov 25 11:07:42 1997
From: Jennifer Dalton <BJCD@cjnetworks.com>
ubject: Young Adult Webpage
Our library is considering developing a Young Adult webpage. Does anyone
have any success stories or problem stories about working with teens to
develop Young Adult homepages? Did they design the whole page or just parts
of it. If they did just some of it, which parts did they create?
I have been looking a library Young Adult pages on the internet and I have
found many interesting and different sites with different levels of teen
involvement. I'd like to know what worked for you and what didn't.
Thanks,
Jennifer Dalton
BJCD@cjnetworks.com
---------------------
From owner-pubyac@nysernet.org Tue Nov 25 11:08:18 1997
From: "Linda M. Dick" <mogwa@eagle.cc.ukans.edu>
ubject: reluctant readers
The collective intelligence, experience, and willingness to share of
this group are quite an inspiration to me as an elementary teacher studying
to become a librarian. Now, I would like to request your assistance.
Are there methods, activities, "hooks", etc. that you use with
adolescents who are reluctant to read, or even to step into the library? The
students I'm concerned with (mostly boys) are able to read, but do not enjoy
doing so. I've read about many interesting activities and programs for
youth, but I'm not sure how to reach this particular group.
I'm counting on your assistance for my question, and am willing to
share any information. Thanks in advance.
Linda M. Dick
mogwa@eagle.cc.ukans.edu
SLIM student Emporia State University
Emporia, Kansas
---------------------
From owner-pubyac@nysernet.org Tue Nov 25 11:08:29 1997
From: Marcia Hardmon <mhardmon@ci.greenville.tx.us>
Subject: die cutting machine responses
THANKS to all pubyacers who responded to my query on die cutting machine use
policies.
The general consensus seems be that the public is allowed access (esp. teachers,
service org., students, day care workers, etc.) and must supply their own
materials. Several commented on the cost of the die. Yes, they are extremely
expensive. Most borrowed/lent die within a local network of libraries.
We also have a network from which to borrow. Thank goodness!
Thanks for all your input.
Marcia Hardmon
W. W. Harrison Public Library
Greenville, TX
---------------------
From owner-pubyac@nysernet.org Tue Nov 25 11:09:04 1997
From: oburg_libjuv@InfoAve.Net
Subject: Re: Treatment of children's librarians
I have been a children's librarian for a little over one year; in my
previous life I was a school library media specialist at an elementary
school. I am treated with the utmost respect by my fellow reference
librarians, and they approach me on a regular basis about patron's needs and
whether they can be better met in the juvenile section (many times, we have
better information written in a much simpler format!). Because we are a
small library, our reference department is often busy to the point that the
children's staff assists with reference patrons. This does more to build
credibility with the public than anything else. There is nothing better to
build credibility as a "real librarian" than to interact with patrons
professionally, courteously and in a helpful way to build their impression
that children's librarians are "real librarians" too. That takes
time......and patience. When your patrons see you that way, it is
inevitable that your peers will begin to change negative impressions.
---------------------
From owner-pubyac@nysernet.org Tue Nov 25 12:05:23 1997
From: Tracy Kendrick <wl540@victoria.tc.ca>
Subject: ancient times historical fiction
Hi all,
A few months ago, a list of historical fiction set in ancient times was
posted to the list. I somehow missed seeing the actual list, even though
I was keeping my eyes peeled. I was wondering if someone could please
email it to me. I tried getting it through the archives but no luck for
some reason.
Many thanks in advance!
Tracy Kendrick
tkendric@gvpl.victoria.bc.ca
---------------------
From owner-pubyac@nysernet.org Tue Nov 25 12:05:24 1997
From: Jeanette Carolyn Larson <jlarson@tenet.edu>
Subject: South Pole Project
I am posting this at the request of Janice VanCleave, an author of science
books for children who lives in Texas.--Jeanette Larson, Texas State
Library, Austin, TX, jlarson@tenet.edu.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Janice VanCleave will travel to the ends of the earth to get kids excited
about science!
This December, Janice VanCleave will embark upon an educational adventure to
the South Pole! She will travel and perform experiments with Randy Landsberg,
the education coordinator from CARA (Center for Astrophysical Research in
Antarctica)at the University of Chicago. Children from around the world are
invited to participate in this event.
Educators are invited to be a part of this adventure —now, and while it is
happening —by sending in questions from their classes about the South Pole
via e-mail, keeping up with the project via the Web site (which will be
updated daily), and taking the opportunity to direct their classes in
conducting the same experiments as Janice and Randy. The experiments
performed will be those designed by kids using common household items.
Results can be compared and any effects of being at different latitudes,
temperatures, and altitudes determined.
Sponsored by the National Science Foundation, the objective of Janice'’s
trip is to encourage kids in science. The experiments and their results
will be beneficial to both kids and educators, and will be the foundation
for a new title in Janice VanCleave’s best selling Science for Fun series
published by John Wiley & Sons.
HOW CAN YOU BE A PART OF THIS COOOOOOL! ADVENTURE?
1. Submit general questions from your class about Antarctica and/or
specifically about the South Pole. For example, "Are there penguins at the
South Pole?"
2. Submit questions than can be answered experimentally. These should be
questions that are unique to the South Pole so the experiments would test the
effects of conditions unique to the South Pole. For example, "What is the
position of the Sun in the sky during a 24 hour day?"
Select one to three of the best questions from your class. Send these along
with the following information to the email address given here.
1. Teacher's name
2. Grade of students
3. School name
4. School address
Send to this email address: icey@astro.uchicago.edu
For more information about the Pole trip and a list of the questions and
experiments see this web site: http://www.southpole.com
---------------------
From owner-pubyac@nysernet.org Tue Nov 25 12:05:25 1997
From: Andrea Johnson <gadberry@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Stumper -- Barrington Bear
I have someone looking for a short story about (possibly titled)
"Barrington Bear." He remembers a teacher reading it to his class from
a
large book, probably a collection of short stories, when he was in high
school 10-15 years ago. Does this ring any bells for anyone?
===========================================================================
Andrea Johnson University of Illinois
agadberr@uiuc.edu
---------------------
From owner-pubyac@nysernet.org Tue Nov 25 12:05:32 1997
From: AHOGAN@bham.lib.al.us
Subject: Stumper Answered!
The Old Befana-type Christmas legend was Babuska by Charles Mikolaycak. I
"discovered" it last year, and according to our catalog it hasn't
circulated since then
and it isn't on our shelves. I guess someone else liked it as much as I did!
Thanks
for the quick responses!
Amy A. Hogan
ahogan@bham.lib.al.us
Childrens Librarian
Birmingham Public Library
Bham AL
---------------------
From owner-pubyac@nysernet.org Tue Nov 25 12:06:16 1997
From: andrew or anne <paradis@jorsm.com>
ubject: Stumper: St. Nicholas
A patron came in with the following description of a book. It is not Tasha
Tudor's "Take Joy". "An Account of a Visit From St.
Nicholas".
Red binding, delicate drawings by Tudor(?), includes article on Thomas
Nast,and the poem. Approximately 14" by 20' by 1/2".
He has been in twice, and I said I would take the question to the lists !
Please excuse cross-posting.
Anne
"`You have no business wearing white to the Middle
Ages,' he'd said, `It will only get dirty.'"
Connie Willis
*Doomsday Book*
Andy or Anne -- Andrew Paradise, Information/Reference Librarian, Medical
Librarian, and Children's Librarian by marriage: Anne Paradise, Children's
Librarian, mystery reader!
Gary Public Library andrew@gary.lib.in.us work
220 West 5th St. paradis@jorsm.com home
Gary, IN 46402 anne@gary.lib.in.us Anne
---------------------
From owner-pubyac@nysernet.org Tue Nov 25 12:06:58 1997
From: andrew or anne <paradis@jorsm.com>
ubject: Stumper: Little people
I had an interesting question the other day. A parent came in with
a second grader whose class had just been taken to the Shriner's Circus.
The child had been curious about the little people, and her teacher had
assigned her to bring in some information, and a book if possible. I
searched my brain and the OPAC, and finally came up with a copy of Russo's
"Max and Me"- found under "dwarf". I dimly recall a book
from another
system which had a title "Big Like Me" or such- photoessay about a
little
girl. Hunt's "Have You Seen Tom Thumb" was not in. I also gave the
patron
(on a related topic) Clifford's "My Friend Jacob". Are there books or
sources out there we need to know about? There are books on deafness,
blindness, some on people in wheelchairs, but very little either factually
or in fiction about this disability.
Thanks in advance
Anne
"`You have no business wearing white to the Middle
Ages,' he'd said, `It will only get dirty.'"
Connie Willis
*Doomsday Book*
Andy or Anne -- Andrew Paradise, Information/Reference Librarian, Medical
Librarian, and Children's Librarian by marriage: Anne Paradise, Children's
Librarian, mystery reader!
Gary Public Library andrew@gary.lib.in.us work
220 West 5th St. paradis@jorsm.com home
Gary, IN 46402 anne@gary.lib.in.us Anne
---------------------
From owner-pubyac@nysernet.org Tue Nov 25 12:07:04 1997
From: andrew or anne <paradis@jorsm.com>
ubject: Stumper: Little people
I had an interesting question the other day. A parent came in with
a second grader whose class had just been taken to the Shriner's Circus.
The child had been curious about the little people, and her teacher had
assigned her to bring in some information, and a book if possible. I
searched my brain and the OPAC, and finally came up with a copy of Russo's
"Max and Me"- found under "dwarf". I dimly recall a book
from another
system which had a title "Big Like Me" or such- photoessay about a
little
girl. Hunt's "Have You Seen Tom Thumb" was not in. I also gave the
patron
(on a related topic) Clifford's "My Friend Jacob". Are there books or
sources out there we need to know about? There are books on deafness,
blindness, some on people in wheelchairs, but very little either factually
or in fiction about this disability.
Thanks in advance
Anne
"`You have no business wearing white to the Middle
Ages,' he'd said, `It will only get dirty.'"
Connie Willis
*Doomsday Book*
Andy or Anne -- Andrew Paradise, Information/Reference Librarian, Medical
Librarian, and Children's Librarian by marriage: Anne Paradise, Children's
Librarian, mystery reader!
Gary Public Library andrew@gary.lib.in.us work
220 West 5th St. paradis@jorsm.com home
Gary, IN 46402 anne@gary.lib.in.us Anne
---------------------
From owner-pubyac@nysernet.org Tue Nov 25 12:07:14 1997
From: "Amy Vessel" <avessel@BAMAED.UA.EDU>
Subject: STUMPER
STUMPER:
I am searching for a particular book that was published in the 1970s.
The descriptions that I was given include squirrels/chipmunks
that live in a toy house and are in a battle with toy soldiers. I
would be grateful for any leads! Thank you and have a great day.
Amy Massey Vessel
University of Alabama
avessel@bamaed.ua.edu
---------------------
From owner-pubyac@nysernet.org Tue Nov 25 12:07:17 1997
From: Rosa Reich <rreich@cflc.net>
Subject: Re: Christmas plays
A book I've enjoyed is "Amazingly Easy puppet plays" by Dee Anderson,
ISBN
0-8389-0697-4. These are one person puppet plays, can be perfomed by two.
I've used some of the stories with my elementary groups, which can
understand the humor.
Also "Special plays for Holidays" by Helen Louise Miller, ISBN
0-8238-0275-2. There are many others. Puppet plays are hard to come by,
so we adapt regular plays into puppet shows.
_____________________________________________________________________________
Rosa M. Reich <"Against stupidity the Gods Themselves>
Youth Services Librarian <contend in vain." Schiller >
F. T. DeGroodt Memorial Library
Palm Bay, FL 32908
---------------------
From owner-pubyac@nysernet.org Tue Nov 25 12:23:26 1997
From: Groton Public Library <groton.public.lib@snet.net>
Subject: Stumpers
I want to thank all who helped me to locate the information I needed
regarding the South American folktale about a weaver and a goat. I was
led to the title The Goat in the Rug by Charles Blood. Thanks again, Sue
Palmieri, Groton Public Library, Children's Services
---------------------
From owner-pubyac@nysernet.org Tue Nov 25 12:33:28 1997
From: Elizabeth Hallaron <ehallaro@nslsilus.org>
ubject: Stumper: boy with stuck face
Thank-you all for telling me that the book my patron was looking for was
When the Wind Changed by Ruth Park. We did not have the book, but did
have it in a collection of stories in the book Windy Day: Stories and Poems,
editied by Caroline Feller Bauer. Thank you so much for the help.
Elizabeth Hallaron
Crystal Lake Public Library
126 Paddock St.
Crystal Lake, IL 60014
(815) 459-1687
Fax 815.459.5845
<ehallaro@nslsilus.org>
---------------------
From owner-pubyac@nysernet.org Tue Nov 25 12:48:02 1997
From: medchild@jcls.org (Medford Children's Department)
ubject: STUMPER-Eskimo story
We have a patron looking for a junior fiction book, fairly recent, about an
Eskimo boy. There is a conflict between the boy and his father that
involves honoring his Eskimo heritage. The father wants the boy to play the
flute, the boy wants to carve. The boy develops a relationship with a
whale, which somehow helps him to resolve conflicted emotions and make peace
with his father. That's all we know right now. I may be able to add more
info later, if this doesn't resonate with anyone. Please respond directly. TIA
Patt Colwell
Medford Children's Dept
Jackson County Library Services
Medford, Oregon
From: medchild@jcls.org (Medford Children's Department)
---------------------
From owner-pubyac@nysernet.org Tue Nov 25 13:02:50 1997
From: Deborah McClish <dmcclish@sinnfree.org>
Subject: stumpers
Hi everyone,
I have two stumpers for you this time.
One patron is looking for a book she read as a child about 20-25 years ago. It
is about a farm where a tornado occurs and physically mixes up the animals so
they all look odd (i.e. a cow head with a horse body, etc.).
Another patron is looking for a book she read as child about 15-20 years ago. It
is a storyline like the movie Parent Trap. Twin girls named Lisa and Lottie meet
at summer camp in Germany. Lisa has curly hair. Lottie has braids.
Do either one sound familiar? I checked A to Zoo to no avail.
Thanks in advance for your help.
Deborah McClish
Librarian, Youth Services
Rockford (IL) Public Library
dmcclish@sinnfree.org
---------------------
From owner-pubyac@nysernet.org Tue Nov 25 13:18:02 1997
From: andrew or anne <paradis@jorsm.com>
ubject: Little people
Thanks to all who responded. The correct title of the Marisabino Russo book
is "Alex is My Friend"- I had found that for the patron. The
photoessay
book I remembered was "Thinking Big" by Kuklin. Unfortunately it is
o.p.
Anne
"`You have no business wearing white to the Middle
Ages,' he'd said, `It will only get dirty.'"
Connie Willis
*Doomsday Book*
Andy or Anne -- Andrew Paradise, Information/Reference Librarian, Medical
Librarian, and Children's Librarian by marriage: Anne Paradise, Children's
Librarian, mystery reader!
Gary Public Library andrew@gary.lib.in.us work
220 West 5th St. paradis@jorsm.com home
Gary, IN 46402 anne@gary.lib.in.us Anne
---------------------
From owner-pubyac@nysernet.org Tue Nov 25 13:34:44 1997
From: Judy Rosenberg <jrosenbe@ascpl.lib.oh.us>
ubject: STUMPER Book illustration techniques
Many thanks to all who wrote with a wide variety of suggestions. For
other interested PUBYACers who get requests for picture books in
specific art styles, here were sdome of the suggestions:
ALSC/ALA booklets on Newbery/Caldecott winners has an index by type of
media
CHILDRENS'S BOOK ILLUSTRATION & DESIGN (Julie Cummins) identifies its
illus. according to media
PUBYAC archives has an area on this
ART & CHILDREN: USING LIERATURE TO EXPAND CREATIVITY (Robin Works
Davis) has a section on art media
MYTH MAGIC & MYSTERY might be a good starting point
WORTH 1,000 WORKDS: AN ANNOTATED GUIDE TO PICTURE BOOKS FOR OLDER
READERS (Gale Sherman) lists many-- also her website at
http://www.beyondbasals.com/older.html
-------------------------------------
Name: Judith Rosenberg
E-mail: Judith Rosenberg <jrosenbe@ascpl.lib.oh.us>
Date: 11/24/97
Time: 9:47:44 AM
This message was sent by Chameleon
-------------------------------------
Judith Campbell Rosenberg
Youth Services Coordinator
Akron-Summit Co. Public Library
55 S. Main St. Akron OH 44326
---------------------
From owner-pubyac@nysernet.org Tue Nov 25 13:50:14 1997
From: susand@ci.hillsboro.or.us
Subject: sex-ed bibliograhy
Hello all. I'm trying to put together a bibliography of sex-ed titles.
We get lots of parents asking for books for their teens and/or preteens
and I'd like to have something concrete to hand them (even if many of
the books disappear as fast as we can buy them!). Here's what I have so
far - I would greatly appreciate any other suggestions or comments:
Brown, Laurie Krasny. WHAT'S THE BIG SECRET? TALKING ABOUT SEX WITH
GIRLS AND BOYS.
Fenwick, Elizabeth and Richard Walker. HOW SEX WORKS: A CLEAR,
COMPREHENSIVE GUIDE FOR TEENAGERS
Flanagan, Geraldine. BEGINNING LIFE
Gravelle, Karen. THE PERIOD BOOK: EVERYTHING YOU DON'T WANT TO ASK (BUT
NEED TO KNOW)
Harris, Robie H. IT'S PERFECTLY NORMAL
Johanson, Sue. TALK SEX: ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS YOU CAN'T ASK YOUR
PARENTS
Jukes, Mavis. IT'S A GIRL THING: HOW TO STAY HEALTHY, SAFE, AND IN
CHARGE
Madaras, Lynda. MY BODY, MY SELF FOR BOYS
MY BODY, MY SELF FOR GIRLS
WHAT'S HAPPENING TO MY BODY? BOOK FOR GIRLS
WHAT'S HAPPENING TO MY BODY? BOOK FOR BOYS
MY FEELINGS, MY SELF: A GROWING UP GUIDE FOR GIRLS
Monpetit, Charles, ed. THE FIRST TIME
Solin, Sabrina. SEVENTEEN GUIDE TO SEX AND YOUR BODY
Westheimer, Ruth. DR. RUTH TALKS TO KIDS: WHERE YOU COME FROM, HOW YOUR
BODY CHANGES, AND WHAT SEX IS ALL ABOUT
several of the EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT series titles on this
subject
These titles are mostly for teens and preteens, but I would also be
interested in recommendations for books for younger readers. (A second
project?!) And of course I'll post all titles to the listserv once I'm
finished.
And while we're on the subject, a staff member told me about something
she ordered from Platex or Kotex several years ago when her daughter was
going through puberty. She was able to request a kit containing info
and samples of several of their products by calling a 1-800 # listed on
the product box. Does this sound familiar to anyone?
TIA for all your help.
Susan Dunn
Youth Services Librarian
Hillsboro (OR) Public Library
susand@ci.hillsboro.or.us
"I went to a bookstore and asked the saleswoman, 'Where's the self-help
section?'
She said if she told me, it would defeat the whole purpose."
---------------------
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