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From: "PUBYAC: PUBlic librarians serving Young Adults and Children" <pubyac@prairienet.org>
To: "PUBYAC: PUBlic librarians serving Young Adults and Children" <pubyac@prairienet.org>
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 11:38 AM
Subject: PUBYAC digest 1203
PUBYAC Digest 1203
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Library card sign up month
by EWillRead@aol.com
2) Re: Funny Food
by Jonathan Pearce <Jonathan@Balona.com>
3) Re: Robert Munsch
by USFCHICK@aol.com
4) RE: Assignment Alert Web Pages
by "Noreen O'Gara" <NOGara@minlib.net>
5) Re: State Picture Books
by Sue Jones <sjones@ci.pleasanton.ca.us>
6) Re: YA's of different ages
by Ed Goldberg <longislandlibrarian@yahoo.com>
7) Re: Scheduling question.....
by "Jennifer Murphy, Head of the Children's Library"
<murphyj@uhls.lib.ny.us>
8) Re: Input requested
by Ed Goldberg <longislandlibrarian@yahoo.com>
9) Request to moderator re: touchy question + response
by "Jamie Holtsclaw" <jholtscl@in-span.net>
10) Writing Group Compilation, anyone?
by "Nancy Vitavec" <nvitavec@fastmail.fm>
11) Boy Scout Visits
by "Cathy Henderson" <cathyh@frontiernet.net>
12) Re: Library card sign up month
by Stephanie Stokes <stephanie@ssdesign.com>
13) Re: Input requested
by Paulalef@aol.com
14) Re: Input requested
by "Noreen O'Gara" <NOGara@minlib.net>
15) "easy readers"
by "robin kessler" <redrobin@usa.com>
16) Defending oneself etc.
by LGD <gabeny13@yahoo.com>
17) Re: touchy question
by Mary <mrc42@yahoo.com>
18) RE: touchy question
by "Mary Ann Gilpatrick" <MGilpatrick@ci.walla-walla.wa.us>
19) Re: touchy question
by "Linda Schloegel" <lschloli@hotmail.com>
20) Re touchy question - the group in question is NOT being disruptive!
by Wanda Peterson <wandasway2003@yahoo.com>
21) Re: touchy question
by "Jennifer Salt" <jennifersalt@hotmail.com>
----------------------------------------------
From: EWillRead@aol.com [mailto:EWillRead@aol.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 11:16 AM
To: pubyac@prairienet.org
Subject: Re: Library card sign up month
How about a bookmark/flier from your library giving times, phone #'s, and
services available?
You probably already have them at your site.
Emma Williams
Elementary Librarian
----------------------------------------------
From: Jonathan Pearce [mailto:Jonathan@Balona.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 11:16 AM
To: pubyac@prairienet.org
Subject: Re: Funny Food
At the risk of being accused of personal aggrandizement and
stimulating flatulence among innocent readership, I will have to
mention The Chocolate Korndog (ISBN 0-74141-127-X),
enjoyed more by somewhat slightly older teens and people in general
with exposed funnybones.
Jonathan
<http://www.balona.com/chocolate.html>
----------------------------------------------
From: USFCHICK@aol.com [mailto:USFCHICK@aol.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 11:16 AM
To: pubyac@prairienet.org
Subject: Re: Robert Munsch
I am the biggest Robert Munsch fan ever!
Try doing Stephanie's Ponytail but tell it as you put your own hair (or
someone with hair long enough) into the various ponytails. The kids will
love it!
Also, The paperbag princess is awesome, too. If you can get it, there is
an
apron story for this. I make the kids paper bag shirts from the grocery
store
to color and wear just like Elizabeth.
Aaron's hair can be told by making a blond wig and going around the room
putting it on kids as you tell the story.
Moira's Birthday is great to tell with party hats, blowers, and invitations.
Give each child a birthday invitation with a grade level written on it. As
you read the story, whenever you say the grade on their invitation, they
stand
up and blow their blower.
I have to go is by far the funniest of his books. You'll have to just read
this one though. I haven't found a funny way to tell this one.
Hope this helps. Have fun!!!
----------------------------------------------
From: Noreen O'Gara [mailto:NOGara@minlib.net]
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 11:16 AM
To: pubyac@prairienet.org
Subject: RE: Assignment Alert Web Pages
Hi,
I have an assignment alert which I give out to teachers at the middle
and high school in the beginning of every school year. It contains our
e-mail and fax and phone numbers but it has never been used!
The media specialists at the schools will frequently call to say things
like "the 9th graders are doing the career project" and the seventh
graders are doing the "president project again." I am not sure that
the
media specialists have actually seen the written assignment and its
requirements either! This makes for an interesting "reference
interview" with the poor kid who has lost the assignment and is trying
to finish up everything at five minutes to closing time on a busy Sunday
afternoon.
We librarians think the assignment alert is great but clearly it
doesn't work for many teachers!
Noreen O'Gara
Reference and Young Adult Librarian
Bedford Free Public Library
7 Mudge Way
Bedford, Ma. 01730
Ph. 781-275-9440
Fax 781-275-6347
----------------------------------------------
From: Sue Jones [mailto:sjones@ci.pleasanton.ca.us]
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 11:17 AM
To: 'pubyac@prairienet.org'
Subject: Re: State Picture Books
Hello Molly,
Just an FYI, but Laurie Steele, the developer of www.ReadtheBooks.com
<http://www.ReadtheBooks.com>
added
"Read Across the USA", a terrific little service for assignments such
as
yours.
>From a USA map, you simply click on the desired state and 2-4 titles
appropriate to that state pop up...click on one and you'll get more detail
about that title.
You are welcome to take a look. Go to
www.ci.pleasanton.ca.us/newkidintro.html
<http://www.ci.pleasanton.ca.us/newkidintro.html>
Scroll down and click on "Read the Books"
Click on "Enter"
On the left side, you'll see "Read Across the USA" and click.
I'm told that you need a Flash product to access this.
Laurie's always looking for appropriate titles to add to each state, so if
you have suggestions or questions, please contact her at
laurie@readthebooks.com <mailto:laurie@readthebooks.com>
or call (916)
435-2247.
Sue Jones
Pleasanton Library, CA
sjones@ci.pleasanton.ca.us <mailto:sjones@ci.pleasanton.ca.us>
(925) 931-3400 x 23
----------------------------------------------
From: Ed Goldberg [mailto:longislandlibrarian@yahoo.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 11:17 AM
To: pubyac@prairienet.org
Subject: Re: YA's of different ages
Jennifer,
Are you talking about a physical dividing line or a conceptual one where you
have programs devoted to specific age groups? This is new to me, but I'm
new to YA as well.
Ed Goldberg
Ed Goldberg
Syosset Public Library
longislandlibrarian@yahoo.com
----------------------------------------------
From: Jennifer Murphy, Head of the Children's Library
[mailto:murphyj@uhls.lib.ny.us]
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 11:17 AM
To: pubyac@prairienet.org
Subject: Re: Scheduling question.....
This doesn't answer your immediate question, but addresses an underlying
problem. It seems to me that budgets get cut for things a community
obviously wants, even demands, when library administration or Boards haven't
done a good job of connecting community expectations for the library with
community financial support of the library.
"Williams, Sally" wrote:
> Y'all did so well with my question about the three teens/bus/junkyard
question (Ans: The Three Investigators) that I thought I'd try another
one....
> * We have had to reduce library hours because of budgetary constraints.
> * We have 2 wildly successful traditions here: an annual pumpkin
decorating workshop, and a gingerbread house (faux) decorating workshop.
These have both become library traditions. We did two sessions of each
workshop, one at 10:00am on a Saturday morning, and the other at 2:00 in the
afternoon. They are both always filled to capacity (40 each session)
> * Since we are now open from 10:00 to 1:00 on Saturdays, we will only be
able to do one session of pumpkins and one session of the gingerbread
houses.
> * How do we handle this???
> * We have a contingent here that says "First come, first served".
We have
another, equally vocal contingent that says "Let people sign up as
potential
attendees, and then have a lottery to see who gets the 40 slots". We
would
do the lottery in plenty of time so that people would know if they were
chosen.
> * I'm tired of trying to play Solomon here--WWYD?????????????
>
> Sally Williams
>
> OOhh--another question--how do I sign up for Pubyac in digest form?
We
have a new computer program that carefully puts each individual pubyac
e-mail in a SPAM folder....
> Thanks
----------------------------------------------
From: Ed Goldberg [mailto:longislandlibrarian@yahoo.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 11:17 AM
To: pubyac@prairienet.org
Subject: Re: Input requested
Marcia,
I agree somewhat that posting a sign in the library can create an
unnecessary uproar. On the other hand, patrons are entitled to safety and
it appears the director is not doing her job in that area. If she is not
going to make the library safe, all public libraries have a Board of
Trustees, which I assume patrons can contact. You might want to consider
contacting them--just beware of a potential negative reaction from the
library director.
A major concern is also for the safety of the children in library, if these
events are occurring in the children's room. They can be unintentionally
hurt as the thief runs away with his ill gotten gains.
Libraries can have people banned from the library. They can limit access,
although excluding all teens from the children's room might harm honest
people. They can hire guards.
My first course of action would be to contact the Board of Trustees,
however.
If you take any course of action, please let us know how it turns out.
Good
luck.
Ed Goldberg
longislandlibrarian@yahoo.com
kalayjia@bellsouth.net wrote:
Hello Pubyac folks,
I'm a library science student who's been "lurking" on the list, just
getting
educated so to speak, but now I need y'all's input on something.
The other day I was sitting in the children's part of our library, book in
hand, purse on table, quietly reading while my kids were on the
educational computers nearby. A teenager was ambling by, then
suddenly reached over the table, grabbed my purse and was gone!
Cops got him (and his buddy) and my purse was recovered and *most* of
the contents. (Cell phone gone & one set of keys) I'm very grateful, of
course, to get my wallet, ids back etc. One of the kids is still in custody
(he's 17) and one was released (he's 16).
Here's my question -- found out, *after* this happened, that this is the
third
incident over the last several weeks at the library! I go there at least
once
a week, more like twice, and I thought I knew what was going on up there.
But, even though I know some of the staff by name and we chat, no one
had warned me.
After what happened to me, today I went up to visit the branch manager,
and suggested that a sign be placed at the Circ. desk that would
basically describe very briefly the type of incident and advise caution and
that folks should be *especially* vigilant given the brazen nature of these
incidents.
Evidently that was already suggested, and the head library person says
no! I can't understand this, especially when these purse snatchings have
been so in-your-face. (One incident involved the purse being snatched
from a patron *as she was checking out books*, the other patron was
accosted in the parking lot and her purse grabbed.
What am I missing here? Shouldn't patrons be warned in a specific way?
I can't help but think if I had known about these incidents, maybe my purse
would have been in my lap or over my shoulder.
What do you all think about this???
thanks,
Marcia S. Kalayjian
Ed Goldberg
Syosset Public Library
longislandlibrarian@yahoo.com
----------------------------------------------
From: Jamie Holtsclaw [mailto:jholtscl@in-span.net]
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 11:17 AM
To: Pubyac
Subject: Request to moderator re: touchy question + response
Dear Moderator,
I would like to request that some of the responses - in
particular those
to Jennifer Baker re:touchy subject - be forwarded to her and not posted to
all to see. While some people are trying to be genuinely helpful, others
are writing in anger and are no doubt causing Jennifer a great deal of
heartache. It's difficult enough to hear of your "shortcomings"
one-on-one,
but to know that an entire group of your colleagues is reading these
messages is much worse.
I do understand that the basis of PUBYAC is to help one
another with
ideas and suggestions. I am wondering if posting all of these replies is
helpful. Certainly, some people have handicapped family members and
friends
and they are very emotional about the subject. Degrading Jennifer isn't
going to help her feel more comfortable with the situation. Constructive
comments and reassurance, like the ones sent by Anita, Kelly, Cindi, Sam,
Aaron, Wanda Peterson, and Karen-Marie, will be helpful to Jennifer. She
already knew if was a "touchy subject" or she would have used a
different
subject heading.
If someone sincerely disagrees with another person on PUBYAC
- to the
point of writing a hateful message - wouldn't it be more appropriate to send
it only the that person rather than to get the whole of PUBYAC geared up?
As professionals, we should respond professionally to our peers and to those
who are using this site appropriately. Jennifer was using this site
appropriately. So, how professional is it to respond so harshly to her?
Would the writer have done that if they were face-to-face with Jennifer or
were they merely shooting off an "I'll show her" response from the
safety
and anonymity of their computer.
I'm not suggesting censorship, just professional courtesy.
P.S. If this is posted and anyone would like to "flame" me,
please do me
the courtesy of responding directly to me.
Jamie Holtsclaw
Children's Librarian
Greensburg Public Library
jholtscl@in-span.net
www.greensburglibrary.org
[Moderator responds:.
Well, since this question is posted to the listserve and addressed to me, I
will make reply:
I appreciate that someone recently said that PUBYAC is a gentle listserve,
and generally, I find that's true. Jamie is right, we are professionals,
and generally, we act like it. We are in a profession that values deep
thought, creativity, cleverness and fun. The postings on this listserve
reflect that. We are also in a profession that fights every day for
intellectual freedom. I've often wished that we could mount a sign above
our doors, "Beware, all ye who enter here" because patrons need to
know that
the library is not a safe place. Knowledge is not safe. That's what freedom
is all about. Freedom doesn't mean you're safe; freedom means that you're
free. I once lived in a country where the people had been forced to stop
speaking freely. I was talking in a coffeeshop with my language teacher, and
he very matter-of-factly said that people could not criticize their own
government or they would be taken away by that government. They were
simply
not allowed to speak out about the corruption, the money being stolen from
the people, and the crumbling infrastructure. My American guts writhed at
this and I asked my teacher, "How could you stand that?"
"Oh," he said,
shrugging, "you got used to it." His complacency simply repulsed
me. I
could hardly believe someone would give over a basic right like that. And
that's why Ninoy Aquino died on the tarmac--he didn't give up the right.
He
spoke out and he was not safe.
Now, Jennifer had the courage to ask the question. She even labeled the
subject heading "Touchy question," which should be the first clue that
she's
venturing onto shaky ground. She willingly opened herself up to any comments
that people may throw at her. Touchy questions are like that. Touchy
questions are not safe. And in their replies, several members have also
opened themselves up to criticism by their peers. Those replies were also
not safe. If you post something touchy onto a listserve, you are going to
get a reaction. As soon as I saw Jennifer's original posting, I knew that it
was going to set off a firestorm. I sent her an e-mail telling her to
brace
herself, because I know that touchy questions light fires. But I also
thanked her for asking the question, because it is in dealing with the
touchy questions where we grow the most.
Hateful speech, like a soliloquy poem, actually says much more about the
speaker than it does about the topic. A person will be judged by their
words. Jamie asks "How professional is it to respond so harshly to
her? "
I will leave that to you all to decide.
I do make decisions about postings. I have made it clear from the beginning
that on PUBYAC I do not post book reviews (there are other venues for this).
No "I'm looking for a job" queries, although I always post all job
openings
messages. If a message is completely off topic, having nothing to do with
libraries, I generally consider that is accidental and it is not posted.
Replies to Stumpers and Bibliography requests should always go to the
original sender; this is made clear in your Welcome file, and I occasionally
remind you; I do not forward them--they are deleted. I will continue to
stop spam, which is becoming more and more of a problem. But all these
items are not discussion topics. They are not "the issues" for
which PUBYAC
was begun in the first place.
In the ten years I've been moderating PUBYAC, I have been asked on several
occasions if I wouldn't please stop a discussion that's been going on too
long, that was beating a dead horse, that was too harsh. I have also found
myself rolling my eyes when yet another person who hasn't read all the
replies jumps into a fray and writes the same thing yet again. However, my
answer has always been that you all are professionals. I don't have to
play
policeman on this listserve as far as discussion goes. You are all adults
and you have the choice to speak conciliatory speech, hateful speech, or
helpful speech. You police yourselves. And while we all would hope
that
PUBYACkers practice professional courtesy, stopping anyone's words about an
issue is indeed censorship.
Jamie, I hope you don't see my reply as a flame. It is not. It is
simply a
reply to a question that has never been asked of me publicly in a PUBYAC
posting. So, as your moderator, I am telling you my stand on stopping
discussion: I won't do it. I don't need to. You guys do it for me.
At your service,
Shannon VanHemert
PUBYAC Moderator
pyowner@pallasinc.com ]
----------------------------------------------
From: Nancy Vitavec [mailto:nvitavec@fastmail.fm]
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 11:36 AM
To: PUBYAC@prairienet.org
Subject: Writing Group Compilation, anyone?
Dear All,
Some months back a pubyacker put together a compilation of children's
writing group ideas. I thought I had tucked it away someplace safe.
Nope! I've looked high and low for it. If anybody still has it, could
they send it to me?
Thank you
Nancy V.
----------------------------------------------
From: Cathy Henderson [mailto:cathyh@frontiernet.net]
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 11:36 AM
To: PUBYAC
Subject: Boy Scout Visits
Hi everyone,
What types of activities do you do when Boy Scout/Cub Scout troups come
to your library for a tour?
Thanks in advance!
Please reply to me off-list and I will compile the results if people are
interested.
Sincerely,
Cathy Henderson
Children's Librarian
Seymour Library
Brockport, NY 14420
cathyh@frontiernet.net
"Enthusiasm finds the opportunities,
and energy makes the most of them"
Henry S Haskins
----------------------------------------------
From: Stephanie Stokes [mailto:stephanie@ssdesign.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 11:37 AM
To: pubyac@prairienet.org
Subject: Re: Library card sign up month
At 10:48 AM 9/6/03 -0500, you wrote:
>From: Margaret Siebert <psiebert12508@yahoo.com>
>Subject: Library card sign up month
>Does anyone know of a source of downloadable coloring sheets,
>bookmarks, or such that would suit the occasion? I tried the ALA web site,
A few years back I did a National Library Card Sign-up Month
Web Site for ALA's Public Information Dept. PBS's
Arthur was
the spokes character that year. That site no longer exists.
But a few -- and I mean few goodies may still be found.
Arthur's Paige Turner Coloring Sheet
http://pbskids.org/arthur/friends/turner/coloring_page.html
Arthur's 8 Bookmarks to print out
http://pbskids.org/arthur/print/bookmarks/index.html
I believe this is the most current stuff that they have online
you will have to cut and paste this URL
http://www.ala.org/Template.cfm?SectionPromotions&template/ContentManagement
/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID9715
I did the original artwork for the below the year
ALA launched this campaign. The below is still
available on ALA's new revised site.
Get Carded @ your library Bookmark
http://www.ala.org/Content/NavigationMenu/Our_Association/Offices/Public_Inf
ormation/Campaign_for_Americas_Libraries/PR_Tools_and_Resources/Get_carded_@
_your_library.htm
Make the Grade @ your library Bookmark
http://www.ala.org/Content/NavigationMenu/Our_Association/Offices/Public_Inf
ormation/Campaign_for_Americas_Libraries/PR_Tools_and_Resources/Make_the_gra
de_@_your_library.htm
Download Super-sized @ your library cards
Perfect for banners, posters and gigantic thank you
http://www.ala.org/Content/NavigationMenu/Our_Association/Offices/Public_Inf
ormation/Campaign_for_Americas_Libraries/PR_Tools_and_Resources/Super-Sized_
Library_Cards.htm.
Hope this helps a little.
Stephanie Stokes, Library Media
& PR
----------------------------------------------
From: Paulalef@aol.com
[mailto:Paulalef@aol.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 11:37 AM
To: pubyac@prairienet.org
Subject: Re: Input requested
We don't have such serious problems, fortunately, but I walk over personally
to anyone I see who is not being vigilant about his or her personal
belongings
and remind the patron that this is a public building and you never know
who's
around. Sometimes I tell the true story of a teen who left her backpack with
her library card in it on a table while she went to the stacks or to the
restroom. About a month later the overdo notices started arriving for very
expensive, irreplaceable art books. We ultimately found out that one of her
male
classmates was boasting about how he'd taken her card, checked out the most
expensive books he could find, and replaced the card. He then threw the
books into a
puddle. One of the books was recovered, but in unusable condition. This
story
has been very effective in making people aware without frightening them.
Sometimes I walk up to a patron who is not hanging on to her purse and
remind her
to do so. Unfortunately, the library IS a public place and in the same way
that
I secure my personal belongings after having had some stolen a couple of
times over the years, patrons have to use the same diligence they do in a
supermarket.
That said, we have a security guard on staff for evenings and when he is off
we hire an off-duty policeman. If I were the director of that library, I'd
look into having the police around more often as a presence and I'd put up
signs
warning people to watch laptops, purses, etc. I think I'd also do some
serious
research on a security system with cameras and the like. If people feel
threatened in any environment, they will avoid it, and that's not what we
want for
our libraries.
Welcome to a great field. I hope you can use experiences such as this one to
give you ideas about what you'll do when you have the chance rather than to
judge other libraries and librarians by what you've experienced here.
Paula Lefkowitz
Head, Youth Services
Parsippany (NJ) PL
----------------------------------------------
From: Noreen O'Gara [mailto:NOGara@minlib.net]
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 11:37 AM
To: pubyac@prairienet.org
Subject: Re: Input requested
Hmm - I've worked in a variety of libraries (public, special, and
academic which were open to the public, and public again) since I was 16
and I guess I would never presume to leave my purse unattended anywhere.
I've been stalked, cornered, flashed,grabbed, and groped in all of these
places over the years and although I really try hard not let my body be
unattended either - sometimes it is hard not to be so engrossed in what
you are doing that you don't notice the stalker behind you.
The public library is no safer than any other public place and I think
we should all exercise caution wherever we are.
But I am not sure about signs - I have had someone try to steal my purse
in an elevator in an office building, in an upscale neighborhood food
market, and in the library's staff room. There were no signs in any of
these places and I don't know that they would have helped. An
interesting question...
However, I will say that if I notice a patron leave their purse or
wallet and walk away from the area or turn their back I do remind them
that they are in a public place and some people just can't resist the
opportunity to add to their own cash flow by relieving you of yours.
Noreen O'Gara
Reference and Young Adult Librarian
Bedford Free Public Library
7 Mudge Way
Bedford, Ma. 01730
Ph. 781-275-9440
Fax 781-275-6347
----------------------------------------------
From: robin kessler [mailto:redrobin@usa.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 11:37 AM
To: PUBYAC@prairienet.org
Subject: "easy readers"
I have a problem that is both sensitive and political. I work in a small
public library where I catalog the Children's books. The technical staff
(clerical position) is also part of this process.
One clerk in particular has complained to me regarding the designation of
"easy reader" on books. I had begun this designation about six
months ago
and these early readers are shelved sperately. Prior to this they were
shelved with the picture books and were somewhat inaccessible. She does
not
understand why they are not still in the picture book section in the pre-1st
category ( this library places age labels on their picture books another
thing I do not agree with).
The problem is that she and others view this section not as a professional
designation but as books that are merely "easy to read," in their
opinion.
They are not aware of the criteria that constitute an "easy
reader."
Trying to be diplomatic, I am not going to just say this is the way it is
and that is that. Instead I would like to present a checklist that would
enumerate the criteria for placing a book in this section with brief
explainations.
I would appreciate GREATLY any ideas you might be able to share regarding
the criteria your library uses in designating a book as an easy or beginner
reader and/ how to handle the clerical staff in a profession manner without
insulting anyone's abilities.
I am desperate for any imput!!
Thanks to all-
REK
--
----------------------------------------------
From: LGD [mailto:gabeny13@yahoo.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 11:38 AM
To: pubyac@prairienet.org
Subject: Defending oneself etc.
I think you have to realize that many of the responses were to the tone of
your statement and the way that you phrased the question. You did NOT say
you were simply trying to find a way to deal with distracting people during
storytime. You made statments about people being uncomfortable with
certain
people due to their 'differences' and asking them to go elsewhere etc.
That
is VERY different than a query about serving more then one group, special
needs and other things. The people that responded to those statements and
that tone were well within their rights to feel that way about the remarks
made. Perhaps one way in which we find solutions to our problems or have
our empathy raised is by seeing how other people percieve us and our
attitudes.
----------------------------------------------
From: Mary [mailto:mrc42@yahoo.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 11:38 AM
To: pubyac@prairienet.org
Subject: Re: touchy question
I used to work at a library which had the children's computers off to one
side and adults were not allowed in that area without a child, but the
library I'm at now has many, many adults who read at lower levels and we
can't keep them away from material at their level. We all believe that we
shouldn't censor, correct?!
Mary Rogers
mrc42@yahoo.com
Jennifer Salt <jennifersalt@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Linda:
If you truly do not allow and unaccompanied adults in the Children's Room,
what do you do about teachers and education students?
--Jennifer
>From: "Linda Schloegel"
>Reply-To: pubyac@prairienet.org
>To: pubyac@prairienet.org
>Subject: Re: touchy question
>Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 22:09:51 CDT
>
>Jennifer,
> We have two groups like that who make weekly visits to the library.
>However, we have the policy that any adult in the Children's Room must be
>accompanied by a child.
----------------------------------------------
From: Mary Ann Gilpatrick [mailto:MGilpatrick@ci.walla-walla.wa.us]
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 11:38 AM
To: pubyac@prairienet.org
Subject: RE: touchy question
Can't not weigh in any longer:
There is nothing wrong with a sign stating that the children's area is
for:
1) Children and their caregivers;
2)Adults researching children's literature
This gives anyone without a good reason to hang around children notice
that you are monitoring the room.
How you handle adult special needs customers is another question
entirely. Caregivers usually ASK me if it's OK; that's common courtesy.
Some can be very disruptive to storytime. We usually don't let very
disruptive CHILDREN stay in storytime. I agree that you need to
introduce the groups to each other and cue the kids that this is OK.
Mary Ann Gilpatrick
Walla Walla Public Library
mgilpatrick@ci.walla-walla.wa.us
Linda:
If you truly do not allow and unaccompanied adults in the Children's
Room,
what do you do about teachers and education students?
--Jennifer
>From: "Linda Schloegel" <lschloli@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: pubyac@prairienet.org
>To: pubyac@prairienet.org
>Subject: Re: touchy question
>Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 22:09:51 CDT
>
>Jennifer,
> We have two groups like that who make weekly visits to
the library.
>However, we have the policy that any adult in the Children's Room must
be
>accompanied by a child.
>
>
>
>Linda Schloegel
>Youth Services Librarian
>Lakeside Branch Library
>Lakeside, CA
>lschloli@hotmail.com
>
----------------------------------------------
From: Linda Schloegel [mailto:lschloli@hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 11:38 AM
To: pubyac@prairienet.org
Subject: Re: touchy question
Okay, I need to clarify my previous posting about not letting unaccompanied
adults in the Children's Room, and I thank you for the polite way in which
several of you asked me about this.
Adults are welcome in there if they are using the materials. Adults who
sit
down and camp out for hours are not. They can sit and read in the Adult
room. In the Children's area there is limited seating, and it's intended
for parent/child book sharing, students doing their homework, tutoring, and
so on. Also, we did have an incident with a man exposing himself, so now
we
are careful that adults in there have a reason to be there.
By the way, this is not a written County policy, but a discretionary branch
one.
We have a wonderful mentally challenged volunteer who helps us straighten
and put away children's books, but is always accompanied by the caregiver.
Only a couple of our special needs people actually use the library - one man
asks for books with pictures of the oddest things, the last was fireboats
and it's fun to find these for him as he gets such pleasure out of it. I
strongly support the idea that we are open to all segments of the public,
and I know how beneficial it is for this group to have outings and interact
with others.
Hope this helped clarify our position,
Linda Schloegel
Youth Services Librarian
Lakeside Branch Library
Lakeside, CA
lschloli@hotmail.com
----------------------------------------------
From: Wanda Peterson [mailto:wandasway2003@yahoo.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 11:38 AM
To: pubyac@prairienet.org
Subject: Re touchy question - the group in question is NOT being
disruptive!
A number of people seem to have completely forgotten what the original post
on this topic said, leading to some confusion and anger without basis.
The original poster, Jennifer, stated very clearly that the group of
mentally challenged adults in question is under the constant supervision of
caregivers and are in no way being disruptive or doing anything to bother
any of the other patrons. She said that the only reason she was
considering
asking them to leave the children's room is because some of the
non-challenged patrons seemed uncomfortable seeing them there. She asked
the librarians on this list whether or not we thought it would be
appropriate to ask this group to leave simply to make the room more
comfortable for those who did not want them there. THAT is the question we
answered by saying that of course it would be wrong to discriminate against
this minority group just to accommodate the bigotry of some members of the
minority.
Several people have responded with posts saying "But we had a mentally
challenged/mentally ill/drug-addicted/leering adult actively harrassing the
other patrons in our children's room and we told him to leave, so you have
no right to say it is wrong! It is a difficult situation and you shouldn't
judge, we all have to do what is best to make the library comfortable for
most people." Don't you see that is an entirely different situation,
and
our response to the situation Jennifer posted about would not necessarily
apply to every other situation involving a difficult patron? What in the
world does a man hiding and leering at children, or a woman asking children
for hugs, have to do with the situation we were talking about: telling
people who are doing nothing wrong at all to leave the children's room
solely because they have a disability and some people do not want to look at
them?
Once again, I have to wonder if the responses would have been the same if
Jennifer had posted saying her library is in a white community, and some
black people were sitting in the children's room (doing nothing at all
disruptive or wrong), making some of the whites uncomfortable merely by
their presence, so would it be appropriate to ask the blacks to leave the
room to make the whites more comfortable? Would you then have responded
saying "We had a black guy in our library once who was hiding and leering
at
kids (or rocking and moaning, or harrassing the other patrons) and we had to
tell him to leave, so I understand how hard this situation is. No one
should judge and say it is wrong to ask these people to leave because it is
a tough situation and we all have to do what we can to make our libraries
comfortable for the most people."? I am guessing you would not have -
you
would of course realize that comparing a group of black people who are doing
nothing at all wrong to a black
person who was being openly disruptive only because the skin color is the
same is wrong, and the question of whether or not to ask them to leave is
not a logical comparison. So why lump the non-disruptive group in
Jennifer's post in with people in your libraries who actually HAVE been
disruptive, simply because they are similarly handicapped? Certainly they
have no more control over their disability than do the fictional black
people in this comparison.
By the way, Jennifer, I get the feeling you misunderstood some of the posts.
No one called you a bigot (unless they did so in a private email that was
not posted to this list). What we said is that if there are library
patrons
who would want these non-disruptive disabled people removed from the
children's room for no other reason than that they do not want to look at
them, they are bigots and you should not accommodate such bigotry. We do
not need to know such people personally to know they are bigots, since the
very act itself defines a bigot: disliking or being uncomfortable with a
certain group of people for no other reason than that they are different is
called prejudice, or bigotry.
You were right to post your question to this group. There are undoubtedly
other librarians on this list who have faced the problem of some of their
patrons being uncomfortable by the presence of other patrons who are
"different" in some way or another, or will face it in the future.
It is
good to discuss these issues openly. But it is not reasonable to expect
that no one will be offended by the idea of possibly discriminating against
a certain group for the comfort of the majority. Many of us have loved
ones
with disabilities or are even disabled ourselves (I myself have a physical
disability) and are going to be bothered by the suggestion that such people
should ever be marginalized for a condition they have no control over.
If we are going to discuss touchy topics, and I think we should, then we
should make sure our responses relate to the actual topic at hand. If we
start comparing apples to oranges, so to speak, eventually no one remembers
what the original post actually said and people start getting angry over
responses that they think relate to completely different situations than
they were intended to.
Wanda Peterson
----------------------------------------------
From: Jennifer Salt [mailto:jennifersalt@hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2003 11:38 AM
To: pubyac@prairienet.org
Subject: Re: touchy question
Pam:
That is exactly what I would do if this situation happened with any
child--it happens with younger kids all the time. Others with more
experience may be able to offer a more polished or accurate approach (and
please do, I'm interested), but your response jibes with my instincts.
--Jennifer
>From: "Pamela Koehler" <pamkoehler@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: pubyac@prairienet.org
>To: pubyac@prairienet.org
>Subject: Re: touchy question
>Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 11:11:49 CDT
>
>Okay, I have a question. We do not have many diabled children or teens
>that
>come into our library. But we did have one a few weeks ago, a teenage
boy
>who was mentally disabled. He came in with his mother who was
researching
>some material. While she was looking around the boy was unsupervised.
He
>was taking great delight in pushing the books on one shelf through to push
>the books on the other side onto the floor. Probably because I have
not
>been exposed to many disabled people I was at a loss as to what to do.
I
>certainly did not want to get upset and scare him or in anyway give him a
>bad memory of being at the library. I tried talking to him, tried to
>interest him on other things, etc. Nothing worked. He has such a
happy
>smile I felt guilty about trying to stop him. I finally spoke loud
enough
>that the mother herad me and came to help. I have not seen them since,
but
>then I had not seen them before either. I've worked here almost 10
years
>and have never had this problem before, but just in case, are there any
>suggestions? We are in a very small cramped space while a new library
is
>being built. In our building we have only children's material, and
usually
>only children and parents.
>
>Pam
>
End of PUBYAC Digest 1203
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